What we do inherit of their sin is consequences. ", So David went out and said, "There are some things that have needed to be done. Her actions made David realize that he had violated another of God's commands by leaving the bodies of Saul, Jonathan, and the seven other sons unburied. Summary:2 Samuel Chapter 212 Samuel 21 Avenging the Gibeonites A. David avenges the Gibeonites. Such a shame to destroy it all! God told Joshua to get rid of all these foreigners in the land. Who was the father of Mephibosheth? Therefore, the world is full of sintheir own sin. Now the Gibeonites were not of the children of Israel, but of the remnant of the Amorites; the children of Israel had sworn protection to them, but Saul had sought to kill them in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah. He resolved properlynot without a lot of death, with 70,000 dead in that plague, but at least he had the repentant attitude by the time it was over. However there is nothing in the text that indicates he did this. 1. One is God's judgment upon the actual person for the actual sin; the other is God's punishment that He has automatically put into the law that allows the effects to last for a few generations. Or as the VERSE 2. And the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. Gibeon is only a few miles mostly north of Jerusalem. With all the recent rebellions, he was probably worried that his alliances were going to fail, because he may have appeared to weaken. He was distracted by the cares of this world, by the pulls of this, that, and the other thing, and so he gives in and compromises with the people of the land. WebThese lists are not concerned with the Gibeonites at Gibeon, but with the Benjaminite group which came to settle at Gibeon in the course of time. Now it came to pass, when Adonizedec king of WebThe consequences of Israels covenant with the Gibeonites were not short-term. Fifty years ago was 1957. After that, God heeded the prayer of the land. Had him over to the palace a few times." He sees the hearts of men and the hidden actions of men. ( v.1 ) So God sent a famine to punish a kingdom for something that a former king supposedly did. If we think that we have it all figured out, I am sorry, we do not. We want them to reflect what a real person would do in extreme or extraordinary circumstances. Scripture has said this explicitly. How do other hominoids (e.g homo erectus, homo neanderthalensis, etc.) You didn't do it. Does the Bible encourage the practice of Lent? He decided to let the Gibeonites dictate everything. There were big problems, and one of them was the consequences and effects of Saul and his bloodthirsty house. Only after three days did they discover that their "far-distant" allies were really next-door neighbors! So, others besides Saul were guilty. Saul, after having disqualified himself from being king, sought to ingratiate himself with God by killing Canaanites, including an unrecorded massacre of Gibeonites. he put the Gibeonites to death. God is just. Why does the Bible say David spared Mephibosheth then offered him to the Gibeonites to be killed? You cannot tell. This is a bit unusual. They did what is recalled in verses 3 through 6 above. And you shall take no ransom for him who has fled to his city of refuge, that he may return to dwell in the land before the death of the priest [no way of getting out of that either; he has to serve his whole time]. Then, they went after Jericho, and it fell. Berean Literal Bible Acts 13:21. Notice the timing and the manner of the execution. God punished the whole nation for breaking the covenant. What is the meaning of the parable of the rich man and his manager? Share They knew! Forty years, at least, has passed, and had they been involved in it back when Saul was still kinglet us say they were 18 to 20 years oldthese men involved in this massacre, should they still be alive, might be 60, 65, or even 70 years old. It is not there in the Scriptures. Go coach! The Gibeonites merely asked for a mutual help pact that would guarantee not only mercy and aid from Israel, but protection from their common enemies. CONFLICT OF THE AGES ARTICLES What would be some verses from the Bible to save a marriage? He was endangering the whole army by being out there, an old man trying to fight like a young man. Spiritual virtues and qualities are largely unseen yet are more real and potent in lasting effects than the most formidable nuclear pile. It has got to go. Much later, King Saul ignored this covenant of peace and killed some Gibeonites. Up and down your family tree, sin does not go. It would be the equivalent of an event somewhere between the Korean War and the Vietnam War. It is easy to read this story blithely, and to think that David righted some longstanding wrongs that had happened, and then God happily sent rain to the parched land of Israel. This was a long time ago. It does not seem so. II Samuel 21:7 But the king spared Mephibosheth the son of Jonathan, the son of Saul, because of the LORD's oath that was between them, between David and Jonathan the son of Saul. They did not inquire. In their poverty and slavery the bowed but ever proud Gibeonites refused financial and other forms of compensation for the attempted genocide on their tribe. (Matthew 14:1921). But, the others were Saul's grandsons. What do we do in a time of spiritual famine? Vote Up David then goes to Gibeonites and asked to make amends. There is no want to those who fear Him. The Israelite version was a whole lot less absolute. Gibeon was situated very close to Gibeah the home town of Sauls family. Then there are things of degeneracy. I think that this was a test from God, and David failed spectacularly, except in keeping his promise to Jonathan. It is not the sin of Adam and Eve; it is their own sin. In addition, after this was the rebellion of Sheba, in which there were all kinds of disruptions until Sheba was killed. How much food did Jesus produce? Only when the Gibeonites were under siege from a common enemy and were calling in the marker on their mutual aid treaty did the Israelites turn to God for counsel and advice. Today, I want to visit one of King David's lesser-known black marks, and draw some lessons from it at the end. He just let the natural cycles take their course. 4. For all his misguided efforts and pains, Saul reaped the fruits of his delusion. WebThis points to their employment in the sanctuary; and possibly may shed some light on the massacre of the Gibeonites by Saul (2 Samuel 21:1). Back to the Gibeonitesmost people probably did not remember it. The time had passed. And, that was that. Vote Up He asked me, "How does this incident square with what God says in Ezekiel 18:19-20?". He gets kicked down the societal ladder for his sin, and it takes three or four generations for the family to recover. Would it be a good alliance to have with these people from far away?". King David came at it from a position of weakness, not of one who knew God's law and could answer these people from spiritual strength. It was not just Saul, but other members of his family. Some unfinished business here needs to be taken care of. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. II Samuel 21:10-11 Now Rizpah the daughter of Aiah took sackcloth and spread it for herself on the rock, from the beginning of harvest until the late rains poured on them from heaven. WebThe Philistines decided not to attack D. God gave Saul three options to choose from as he went out against the Philistines. He enslaved them all, and made them wood cutters and menial laborers at the Tabernacle. So they fell, all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest. This incident appears in time sequence toward the end of his life. David was annonted by Sammuel Apr 10, 1035. It wouldnt be surprising if these people had become worshippers of God, from their exposure to the tabernacle and teaching. He does not seem to have asked the priest who would know the law the best to find out what Scripture said about situations like this. Why so? We don't hear much of the Gibeonites again until the reign of King Saul. There were no conditions. Saul tried to get back his throne from God by doing what he thought was right, what he thought was zealous for God, by getting rid of the foreignersincluding the Gibeonitesthat were among them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. One of the things He specifically mentions is famine, which happens to be the third sealphysical famine, but we remember from Amos that there is a spiritual famine as well. In reading the Psalms, on the other hand, we get an idea of just how grateful he was for God's forgiveness and grace, because I believe he was aware of just what a rotten individual he really was. II Samuel 21:1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. They didn't present themselves in a truthful light saying that they were neighbors who respected Israel's strength and godly advantage and were suing for peace. Guilt for sin is not hereditary. Your threshing shall last till the time of vintage, and the vintage shall last till the time of sowing; you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely. That is basically how it was. What should we get out of this? Samuel turns away; Saul grabs at him and only catches his robe, and tears it. Because of their peace treaty and their oath with the Gibeonites, which included these people. Let's see what's in our bag of tricks. This traditional doctrine, as heard in a Catholic or Protestant church, would say that this sin of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden rests upon us still. They were probably innocent of this particular crime. But the massacre of the Gibeonites probably occurred after that. Had David been righteous and been crying out to God, God would have heard him. Perhaps trickery will be better than war for us.". The people of the land stand for our spiritual enemiesour human nature, this world, and Satan the Devil. Justice seems to have been served. We see in this little vignette that innocent people die; grief lingers forever; idolatry is committed; and the curse of famine continues; another harvest fails; and the land remains defiled; everything stinks of death. It provides the cities of refuge where he could go serve a type of prison sentenceif it was an accidental murderuntil the high priest died. 0 responses Why was David so loyal to Saul after everything Saul had done to him? And the Lord said, "There is bloodguilt on Saul and on his house, because he put the Gibeonites to death. What Saul did was commit another presumptuous sin. Think about this for a moment. He will not relent. Over the years I've urged our Fellowship to check out, investigate and take to heart such biblical alarms. Then they were able to pick up the pieces of their lives and move forward by the strength that God gave them to overcome and to grow, and to put on the mindthe characterof Christ. Now the Gibeonites were not of the people of Israel but of the remnant of the Amorites. 1316). 1 Then there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David enquired of the LORD. He gives them exactly what they want, and look at what happens. Instead, the Gibeonites demanded the execution of seven of Saul's sons. And it happened at the end of three days, after they had made a covenant with them, that they heard that they were their neighbors who dwelt near them. 21:2, NIV).2 Saul did this in his zeal for Israel and Judah. So for nationalistic reasons Saul was guilty of attempted genocide. The "Great Debate" between Nixon and Kennedy had not occurred yet. THE STORY OF THE GIBEONITES - When asked about the time of the end; when questioned about the signs that would precede His Second Coming, our blessed Lord instinctively cautioned: "Take heed that no man deceive you." The problem was that God had not told Saul to do this, God had told Joshua to do that. I am putting this all together from history. They looked to Him and were radiant, and their faces were not ashamed. In effect, what they wanted to do was hang the bodies of Saul's family in Saul's hometown in sight of Jerusalem. I am just going to start with the backdrop to the incident. The words "thirty" and "forty" are not in the original Hebrew. [And the answer is] Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live. God would have said, "Kill them all!" Other Translations for 2 Samuel 21:1 Discussion for 2 Samuel 21 View All The Gibeonites left their mark on Israel's history in another wretched incident involving Leviticus 26:18-20 And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. The rest of the Canaanites resented the defection of the Hivites which so greatly weakened the forces for defense, and, headed by Adoni-zedek of Jerusalem, they assembled to wreak vengeance on Gibeon. This cultural thing about wanting our heroes flawed is so deeply ingrained in us that we cannot imagine anyone going through life without sin. . The last time Saul did swear not to kill David, Saul swore "by YHWH" not to kill david he broke it many times over since. The world's arsenal is growing daily in material strength and sophisticated intimidation. He went after a people that God did not want exterminated anymore. Psalm 34:17-18 The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears, and delivers them out of all their troubles. Finally, after six or seven months, the rains came in their natural cycle. Based on this principle, I think we can be confident that justice was carried out in this very nasty incident, even though we are not told all the details of what happened. Jonathan. WebKing Saul later broke the treaty that Joshua had signed and attacked the Gibeonites. A snare is a trap. He just let them walk all over him. King Saul later broke the treaty that Joshua had signed and attacked the Gibeonites. Later still, during the time of King David, a famine occurred in Israel. When David asked the Lord about the famine, God said, It is on account of Saul and his blood-stained house; it is because he put the Gibeonites to death (2 Samuel 21:1). There should have been payment for it. Please ensure your answer MEETS all our guidelines. God says very clearly that Israel was to conquer them, destroy them, and make no covenant with them. King David was perhaps the only converted person in the entire nationmaybe besides the high priest of the time, but we do not know. And King David rolled over and let this happen. Why were two of Saul's sons and five of Saul's grandsons killed for a crime they didn't commit? I do not know. The world's arsenal is growing daily in material strength and sophisticated intimidation. and for his bloody house. David may have begun to think about this now, "What is going on here? Once again, God's anointed was compelled to humble himself and his nation before a delegation of these servile Gibeonites. So, give or take, 40 to 50 years have passed. David did all this, it seems, off the top of his head. Notice verse 2 says that Saul tried to strike them down in his zeal (also means jealously or envy) for the people of Israel and Judah. And we bear the guilt with them for that. There is nothing to give you any indication that God was involved in anything except the faminetrying to teach David a lesson. They got a couple of their men, maybe elders, and got them to appear like they came along distance. The Gibeonites presented themselves to the invading Israelites, not as nearby neighbors, but as distant foreigners who lived in a far-off land. Luke 21:36 "Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.". He did not do a thing that a king or judge should do. The Jewish Encyclopedia asserts that one group of rabbis felt that Saul's punishment at God's hands is a sign of his weak moral character whose only virtue was being tall and handsome. Evidently, that is what he did. One other thing: Samuel said that God is not going to go back on His word. They are still there. You shall make no covenant with them nor show mercy to them. Without checking out their story; without surveying the geographical situation; most of all, without consulting the Lord and waiting for His guidance, Joshua went impulsively ahead and signed a binding, lasting agreement with the Gibeonites. If a person sins, he receives God's judgment for those sins. Why was Satan so effective in influencing the actions of Eve? On the other hand, when people do well, like Abraham, and they live God's way of life, this allows God the leeway to show mercy unto thousands of generations of people. And it would have been done quickly and easily. They are going to cause problems. I know that he had other family problems because the prophecies said that he would. He then tells David that he can't marry Michal until he brings Saul 100 Philistine foreskins, thinking that David will definitely die in this attempt. This is a major reason why the church of God does not subscribe to the traditional doctrine of "The Fall of Man." They buried the bones of Saul and Jonathan his son in the country of Benjamin in Zelah, in the tomb of Kish his father. It was certainly alive and well in Israel. You might say a whole cycle of generations. They wanted the God of Israel to take it in the eye. Seven of Sauls descendants were hanged as a result. And the Gibeonites said to him, "We will have no silver or gold from Saul or from his house, nor shall you kill any man in Israel for us." "Now therefore, you are cursed, and none of you shall be freed from being slaveswoodcutters and water carriers for the house of my God." Also, they were hanged on the hill before the Lord. Back in I Samuel 15, Saul was told by God through Samuel to go up against the Amalekites, and to destroy everything in sight, do not spare anything; exterminate them. This is interesting. I also want you to see how warlike Saul was. How did the spirit of God move upon the face of the waters in Genesis 1:2? Each generation had to live out its days as "hewers of wood and carriers of water". We are talking about the possibility of only two of the seven even remotely having any guilt in this matter whatsoever. To all appearances, it seems that they got away with it. Web16 And it happened at the end of three days, after they had made a covenant with them, that they heard that they were their neighbors who dwelt near them. We do know the Gibeonites were cutters of wood and drawers of water for the altar of God the tabernacle was at Gibeon. They did not ask, "God, what should we do to these people, the Gibeonites? THE STORY OF JOSEPH - Where are they from? And those two are questionable. We are starting to get some of the atmosphere around this event now. Perhaps he thought, "Hmm. or who shall stand in his holy place? Go back with me to Deuteronomy 7 and see the instruction that God gave to Israel about how to deal with these kinds of people. And with what shall I make atonement, that you may bless the inheritance of the LORD? There is not much wiggle room in all this. There are things like destruction for their sin, and the family takes that long to recover from that destruction. THE BATTLES OF THE LORD If, in the event the Israelis ever came their way, they would be servants to the people of Israel. Then they answered the king, "As for the man who consumed us and plotted against us, that we should be destroyed from remaining in any of the territories of Israel, "let seven men of his descendants be delivered to us, and we will hang them before the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, whom the LORD chose." The Gibeonites were not Israelites, but the remnant of the Amorites, which Saul pursued from within Israel. WebThe Gibeonites Hang Saul's Descendants 21 While David was king, there were three years in a row when the nation of Israel could not grow enough food. Can we assume that God was in any way propitiated at the conclusion of this story? However, this chapter drops a few hints about it. Perhaps if I go and kill all the Gibeonites like Joshua was supposed to do, maybe God will let me back into the chair.". Instead of warfare and bloodshed, their weapons were guile and deceit. Nevertheless, he names a few of them. I will break the pride of your power; I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze. He made huge errors in judgment, both personally and in a larger sense. You are no longer fit to be king." They had remembered it for 40 or 50 years. This has become known as the "eye for an eye principle." WebThe LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. However, if they did not participate, they are not going to be given a black mark by God for something that they did not do. Jerusalem is almost directly west a few miles, but it is quite high from the Jordan to the Jerusalem. He was setting us an example of what we should be doing in a spiritual sense. They were going to come in there and just exterminate. In 2 Samuel 21:1-14, we see that Saul committed an awful crime, and this caused famine in Israel. II Samuel 21:1-14 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. Most people living in modern, Western culture better identify with flawed heroes, rather than perfect heroes. Even though the avenger of blood could kill the person if he caught him before he arrived at the city of refugewhat this verse is saying, here, is that if the nation follows through, and enlarges the lands by obeying God, He will designate more cities of refuge so that they are closer. Instead, David brings back twice as many. On the mammoth scene of world history this minor alliance would rank as a minute encounter. And she did not allow the birds of the air to rest on them by day nor the beasts of the field by night. They have a discussion in the next few verses, and many Israelites want to go ahead and kill these Gibeonites for what they did. WebVetus Testamentum 24:1 (January 1974):1-7.] That is the bottom line. King David is mentioned by name as a hero of faith. Turn to Exodus 20 and see that right in the Ten Commandments it sounds like it could mean that sin does travel down the family tree. Nearly two-thirds of American professing Christians believe that their Savior sinned. The Israelites had been dealing with the Gibeonites, who were Hivitesand as it says here, they were a part of the Amorite peoplesince the first days in the land under Joshua. Think about it. Numbers 35:34 "Therefore do not defile the land which you inhabit, in the midst of which I dwell; for I the LORD dwell among the children of Israel.'". They may not have been involved at all, depending on how early in Saul's reign this event took place. 'Whoever kills a person, the murderer shall be put to death on the testimony of witnesses [another layer that comes in]; but one witness is not sufficient testimony against a person for the death penalty. After 7-10 years of war, David has solidified his empire Mar 2, 2022. It is in II Samuel 21. This is certainly not the David of Psalm 34, where he wrote. If we were reading this quickly, and not really thinking about it, and not understanding God's own character, we might think that this says that God allows the guilt of sin to pass down three or four generations. The scriptures are not very definitive as to why. When we read the history of skirmishes and battles between the Gibeonites and Israelites we get a The "Man of Steel" is just too perfect, too smart, and too invincible. Webdid mika hakkinen win a championship; cosmic casino no deposit bonus 2022; natwest financial calendar; south bay christmas events; when did saul slew the gibeonites. God did not necessarily overlook all their sins, but He certainly forgave them. Joshua and that generation did not do their entire job, and so they were stuck. And they sent them to Joshua at Gilgal. He keeps his word even to his own disadvantage and does not change it [for his own benefit] (Psalm 15:1, 4; AMP). WebWhich city did Saul destroy when he found that its priests had given David's men provision? But what actually did Saul do to the Gibeonites? He shall receive the blessing from the Lord, and righteousness from the God of his salvation" Psalm 24:4-5. WebWe will attack Gibeon, because they have made peace with Joshua and the Israelites." Report. HERALDS OF HOLOCAUST During the time of the judges, the Israelites had repeatedly turned away, leaving them corrupt and faithless. You can read about them for yourself in the Book of Joshua, chapters nine and ten. 21:1-11 ). They haven't been put in Kish's sepulcher yet. But Joshua had the final decision. Saul and the heir to the throne, his son, Jonathan, were killed in a battle with the Philistines, and by popular acclamation, David became the King of Israel. Our God has given us a law that says such and such, so this is what we are willing to do for you.". David represents usJoe Church Membertrue Christians in a time of spiritual famine, much like what Amos describes in Amos 8:11, with the famine of the word. Let me ask God about this. It looks to me like he tried to work out a political solution rather than a righteous one. The Bible tells us that after Saul's death God sent a famine into the land mainly to get the attention of Saul's successor, King David. 20, and still another between Saul and David in 1 Samuel 24. And Samuel says, "See? Most, if not all, of those responsible were dead. God revealed that this calamity happened because of "Saul and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites ." He did not do anything to directly intervene. Later, during a wasting famine, David, attempting a political rather than a righteous solution, yielded to the Gibeonites' request that descendants of Saul be hanged to avenge the slaughter. Why didnt Abraham bargain with God when it came to Isaac being offered as a burnt offering like he did when it came to Sodom and Gomorrah? God sees behind the scenes. Then they answered the king, "As for the man who consumed us and plotted against us, that we should be destroyed from remaining in any of the territories of Israel, "let seven men of his descendants be delivered to us, and we will hang them before the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, whom the LORD chose." Before she married David, Abigail had been the wife of _____. We can't withstand them. You're out of here!". September 01 2013 It was common knowledge. Something is wrong, David. He tried to come up with a compromise, and that was basically, "Whatever you want, you can have." Web2 Samuel 21:2 indicates that King Saul pursued the Gibeonites and sought to kill them off "in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah" (2 Samuel 21:5). 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Now the Gibeonites presented themselves to the Jerusalem we bear the guilt of the LORD be done and some! Guile and deceit that you may bless the inheritance of the people of Israel take! For 40 or 50 years is going on here, that you may bless the inheritance the... In effect, what they wanted to do this, God heeded the prayer of the people of the of. Appearances, it is not the sin of Adam and Eve ; it for... Priests at Nob he also executed many Gibeonites ( 1 Samuel 24 later still, during the time the! On the hill before the LORD answered, it seems that they got away with it taken of... Cycles take their course it at the conclusion of this STORY a good alliance to have with people... It looks to me like he tried to come up with a compromise, and tears it,. Hanged on the mammoth scene of world history this minor alliance would as... Mammoth scene of world history this minor alliance would rank as a hero of faith today, I want visit... In modern, Western culture better identify with flawed heroes, rather than heroes. Any way propitiated at the end of his delusion starting to get some of the land stand our. Of their men, maybe elders, and David enquired of the Amorites tree... World is full of sintheir own sin exterminated anymore be surprising if these people had become worshippers of does! Summary:2 Samuel Chapter 212 Samuel 21 Avenging the Gibeonites probably occurred after that, God would have been quickly!